Holy Shit!! With Nate & Esha
A beginners guide to spiritual awakening, the metaphysical, unconditional love and all things "whoo whoo". Told from the perspective an average dude and a majestic shaman. ;)
Holy Shit!! With Nate & Esha
Episode 9 - Our Relationship With Death
In this episode Nate & Esha discuss death and our relationships with its many forms. Whether it be a physical body death, a spiritual death or the death of a phase of our lives. How can we navigate each of these and do it in concert with our ego and its many attachments. Enjoy!
Hey everyone, welcome to episode nine of the Holy Shit with Nate and Esha podcast. Got a cool one today. It's just me and Esha, and we're going to talk today about death. Uh and the many different facets of that. Uh, death of the body, death of the ego, death of all of the different things, and how just kind of the dance between all of that can uh help you uh live a better life. So, Esha, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_00:I am good. I'm excited because we're talking about death. I don't mean to be like the death lady because sometimes that's what I'm kind of known as.
SPEAKER_05:But yeah, I know, but that's that's your that's your jam. That's I mean, you you've got a very good understanding of it, and the and of course the grief surrounding it, but uh it's it's kind of caused you uh to kind of really dive deep into this, and you've got you're more knowledgeable about this topic than anyone else I know.
SPEAKER_00:So well, you know, it's even to hear you say that, you know, for me it's yes and no. It's like um I don't know it all. I'll have to die to come back and to kind of give a full on. But I I suppose for me it's it's more of my willingness to walk towards it, to, to hold space for it, um, to not necessarily be afraid of um of it, you know. And I and it's interesting because just either yesterday or today, I was um I was contemplating how how did I get here? How did I get here to be sort of like this life and death doula? None of it was my calling, none of it, I actually pushed it away uh until you know things just kept happening and happening. And then, you know, at some point you have to just stop with yourself and say, okay, okay, let me pay attention to this. And then of course I go back to when I was a little child in Guyana, and um on our way home from school, my sister and I would, and I'm sure I was probably the ringleader as a naughty child. Um, and we would run into uh um funeral homes.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Um and back home they would be just the doors would be wide open, but I would run into funeral homes and um run up to caskets, see a dead body, and just start laughing like it was the biggest joke. And of course, I was a child, I didn't really know the specifics of any of that. I didn't know anything about death um until my own father died when I was 10 years old. But it's such an important topic, not just for you and I and all of our listeners, but for the whole world, because we deny so much, uh, we deny death so much. And I'm not even talking the physical death, yes, we know this is coming.
SPEAKER_03:Sure.
SPEAKER_00:Um, but just the deaths, the the day-to-day deaths that we're having in our daily lives that we don't ever acknowledge, that we don't ever make space for. So yeah, it's exciting to talk about it because for those of our listeners who are on this awakening path, um, death is going to be part of what you're going to have to um wrestle with.
SPEAKER_05:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we can't escape it.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I I actually funny, I posted a video about a month ago talking about just the fear of death and you know, specifically the death of the body, you know, not necessarily the you know, symbolic death of the ego and those type of things, but the that the fear of the body and about you know how it's it's the one thing that probably it doesn't probably it's not probably, it's for it's it's it's facts facts, it unites every single one of us, um, you know, no matter where you're at. And um, you know, some of us have a healthy fear of it and others don't, um, and the understanding of why some wouldn't and why some would. And um, you know, it's one of the things that um, you know, as I've been on this journey, um, I felt the fear of death kind of slip away a couple years ago. Um, and um, it's been a very uh interesting thing. I'm not saying every once in a while it doesn't pop up from here to there, but um, and like I said, um it's not a welcoming of it by any means, but it's and it's not like a longing for it, but it's definitely not a it used to be something that scared the shit out of me. Like it was a something that would I would not look at. I didn't want to look at, I didn't want to accept it, didn't want it, it scared me. And um, you know, this this awakening process for me has kind of has kind of allowed me to maybe look at it a little bit, you know, not not even not even maybe, like I have looked at it, and um it um it doesn't seem anywhere near as scary as it used to.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, it's it's so interesting because um the things that we're so afraid of, we don't want to see, we want to push away, we want to deny those things. And um, and I think when you have these personal experiences like you've had, like I've had, um, when you come face to face with uh you know challenges and and uh physical issues and loss, um, you have no choice but to dance with it, right? Um and being on the awakening, uh and we're all, I just want to say we're all on the awakening process, whether you realize it or not, every single being is on it. Absolutely, you know. It's it's just whether they're conscious of it or unconscious of it, right? Yeah, um, but you know, the beautiful part about contemplating death, some people may think it's morbid. Oh, I'm thinking about that. That that means that I'm drawing it close to me. Not at all. The Buddha actually said that death is the greatest meditation that you could ever do, right? And why why would he say something like that? Well, because it kept things real, yeah, it kept you in the present moment, right? Right, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, this this whole this whole game wouldn't work if death wasn't a a part of it.
SPEAKER_02:That's right.
SPEAKER_05:You know, there would be no reason there would be no reason to learn anything if you knew you were never gonna die. Um it's just like you know, we won't talk about it in this podcast, but just like evil is a necessity to good, uh death is a necessity to life, um, you know, there must be there must be the polarity um to to get the full experience.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And then even as I listen to that, the question that we ask ourselves, well, well, what is death?
SPEAKER_02:Right?
SPEAKER_00:Like what exactly is death? And I'd heard a great definition. I don't know where I heard it from. I think it might be a Hebrew definition or something, but it said death is being someplace different. That was being somewhere else was a definition of death, right? Because even though you say, Oh, there's death, but what actually is ending? Right? Because we associate death with an ending. There's something is no longer. Well, what exactly is no longer?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, actually, that's one of the points I was talking about uh in uh that post that I made, and I got a lot of people that reached out to me, and they it was basically about um shifting your perspective on death as a scary ending to a beautiful beginning. Yes, you know, 100% shifting it like you know, where it's like not something to be dreaded, uh that there's gonna be, and I, you know, once again, this wouldn't be a holy shit with Nate Nesha podcast without me quoting Ramdas. Um but uh he says something to the effect of uh, you know, death is like taking off a tight shoe. Um and I thought that was just such a such a beautiful way of saying it. It's like a you know, like it's something that you know we don't know now, we don't have no understanding of that of that concept, but um when we get back to where we come from every time we die, um and we before we reincarnate again, that's where we want to be.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right, exactly. Yeah. And you know, the way I like to put it, like when I wrote the Wisdom of Death book, um literally that book came about because I had spent after Hassel died, like just two very tough, challenging years, just feeling death. Like there was just always this death that was with me, this feeling, this energy of death that I I couldn't I couldn't lose. It was like my shadow or something. And and then I eventually just sat with it and it's like, okay, well, what do you want me to know? So the wisdom of death book came out out of that. And one of the things that um are one particular nugget that I remember is that death is the great equalizer. It doesn't matter how rich you are, how poor you are, what your status in the world is, we're all equal in death.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, you can't take any of this stuff with you.
SPEAKER_00:You can't take none of this stuff with you, and and so this sense of clinging to things, this is mine, and you know, like the attachments and all these. That's like, why? Like you none of this is you don't own anything, right? Some part of the mind thinks that you own it, but you you're not taking this with you.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, the ego.
SPEAKER_00:Right. It's like, okay, and I love I want to share a little um this uh uh comment here by Buddha. Um Buddha says, young and old, foolish and wise, rich and poor, all keep dying. As a potter's clay vessels, large and small, fired and unfired, all end up broken. So too, life leads to death. And you know, we have this notion that when a baby is born, that baby has has come into life. But truthfully, we should actually say that baby has come into death.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Right? Because the moment a baby is born, the countdown begins.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, and I hate to say that way, and people be like, oh, I don't want to hear that, but all I'm speaking is the truth.
SPEAKER_05:Right. The top the talk the the clock starts ticking on day one.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, on day one. Yeah, yeah. And so we think that there's all of this time that we have when in actuality, past, present, and future are all happening at the same time.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Sort of like this this space-time continuum. Um, and so my thing is we know that death is inevitable. What are we doing about it in our living lives? How are we choosing to live knowing that in any moment death could pay us a visit? And and how is that helping us to awaken to an even better living? Because this is the question that death asks us how are you living?
SPEAKER_05:You know, this sounds this sounds weird to say, um, but you know, those of us that experience death in our lives death of a loved one, death of a friend, whatever you want to say, death of someone that you care for or you're close with, as hard as it is, it's almost like a beautiful gift because it allows you or forces you in some way to really take an inventory on what you're doing with your life. Um, I know there are some people, and we talked we talked about this in one of our episodes about especially how here we here in the West Um we we pacify death or we we we we hide it, you know, it's not something that's a welcome part of our culture. And up to the point in where, you know, there are some people that live into their their late 50s that have never experienced the death of a loved one. You know what I mean? They've they've never they've never had it, or they've never they've never had to see a dead body, or they've never, um, you know, wherein, you know, if you're if you're an Indian kid, you know, walking around the streets of India, you it's just it's a Tuesday. Then you might you might you might see like three dead people before the noon. That's right. It's just that's just part of it. Yes. Um, so um, but yeah, I mean, to your point, um, it it causes us to take an inventory and um it's not taking away from the pain and the grief of losing the loved one. But I also think that part of that process of working through all of that is it's a beautiful thing, but it's also, you know, it's also pain very painful.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's both, right? It's it's that bittersweetness. Um, it's it's mingled together, this this sense of I want to cling to life and I want to hold on to it as as much as I can. And yet we can't. You know, we we must we must live sort of like with an open hand, not clinging too tightly, because uh eventually it's it's not ours to hold on to. We we have to keep letting it go, right? Um so the truth is that I am subject to death and death is unavoidable. And how can I make peace with that?
SPEAKER_02:Right?
SPEAKER_00:And you know, and and what you said before, it's it's a hundred percent true. Is sometimes it mystifies me that there's still people in the world that have hasn't or don't know anyone who's died, they do exist, right? Oh yeah, uh and and every time I'm like, wow, that's like, how does that happen? You don't know anyone that's died, or you've never seen a dead body.
SPEAKER_05:I'm like, yeah, I mean it's it's quite possible, and I'm I'm I'm sure that it's happened. There's probably been people who live their entire life and never experienced death other than their own. Yeah, yes, yeah, yes, yes, I mean, especially in the West for sure.
SPEAKER_00:Um well, so you know, the so what what is death like, right? So for our listeners, right? So let's move a little beyond the physical death. We'll come back to that in a moment, right?
SPEAKER_05:Death of the body, death of the body, death of the body, right?
SPEAKER_00:Because if we understand, those of you who are in this awakening process, right, you're not the body, you're not the mind, right? You're pure your pure undivided consciousness, right? And so when we know this, beyond knowing it, when we we we we ground into the embodiment of that, we know that when we die, it's just this body, this container that is gone. The consciousness still remains. Yeah, that can't ever die. But how we can apply it is to our daily living is to ask ourselves the question well, where am I clinging to? Who where in my life am I clinging so heavily? What is it that I'm attached to so deeply that's actually making me feel like I've I'm dead already? Right? Right, because we don't have to go to a cemetery to see the dead. We don't.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Let's be frank and be real about it, right? We can look at our very own lives to see the areas to see where we're dead.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And this is what we're talking about today is that can I be bold and brave enough to access, to go in and see and access the parts of my life where death has already arrived, where I'm not living fully.
SPEAKER_05:I think it's a Thomas Jefferson quote that said, um, most men die at 25 and aren't buried until they're 75.
SPEAKER_00:Wow, I've never heard that, but that's pretty powerful.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_00:That's insanely powerful.
SPEAKER_05:I know. Yeah, because I mean, so think about that. And that's that, you know, that that that point when which you are able to chase your dreams and to to go after what you're here on this earth to do, and you don't, and you don't do it. And basically that's to me, that is the definition of hell on earth. Is that is that is that knowing or having the ability to, which we all do, chase our dreams and the things that fulfill us, and we don't do it because we're so beat down by the matrix that we just we succumb to it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I'm gonna give you just a personal you and the and the listeners a well personal uh experience. So even just today, like these last couple weeks, I've just been working on my website, been you know, in a contemplative place about, you know, where am I going and what am I really doing here? And today there was just some big doubts just came in and doubts about am I doing what I'm here to do? You know, am I in the am I going in the right direction? And I it was just like this cloud that just came wrapped itself over me, and and I just started to have all of these feelings and emotions. And after my uh massage and chiropractic appointment today, I said, you know, I need to, I need to drop into this feeling, and I'm just gonna go take a Epsom salt bath and I'm just gonna soak.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And and I'm just gonna allow, I'm gonna feel and allow what wants to come in. And you know, I realized that it was part of this ego that comes in that creates doubt, right? And the doubt is okay, but giving myself the permission to drop in to feel it and then to ask for clarity. And then, of course, all of these things started coming up, no, you know, about yes, doing more workshops around in death and and grief and all these different things. I'm like, because the most important thing for me, I realize is not even, you know, so many of us are concerned about finding a partner and wanting a partner to be with and one in love. But for me, it's it's making sure that I'm doing my dharma.
SPEAKER_05:Right. And dharma for those that aren't familiar with that term.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, dharma is your soul, your soul's purpose. Why are you here?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Right? Because I know if I'm walking lockstep and key in my dharma, I am fulfilled, regardless of who I'm with and who I'm not with.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. And what's out of it?
SPEAKER_00:Because I know I'm love already, right? So it's like, okay.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Well, what's what's what you just said, and it it was it was interwoven in throughout the entire experience. And like I know that you're not alone in that story because that's a probably a monthly occurrence for me. You know what I mean? That whole like, you know, what the hell am I doing here? Is am I doing what I'm supposed to be doing? Am I really maximizing my life's calling, my soul's purpose, my dharma, like whatever? Have I misread something? Like all of these things, you know, like all of those, all of that. I think that's just part of this dance and this journey. But you know, you said something about, you know, what's causing us to have those doubts is our ego. It's that it's that it's trying to protect us from potential reaching, reaching out too far. You know what I mean? It's it's trying to keep us, it's it's the ego is it is I think it is intended to try to keep you safe, but it also keeps but it also keeps you trapped.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:So so what's what's crazy about this to tie all this in a little bow here is that it's actually the death of the ego that really sets us free. So freedom, freedom through death.
SPEAKER_00:Freedom through death. It's the only way. And this is what in in the Bhagavad Gita, this was the whole um challenge with Arjuna, right? Like for anyone who's ever read the Bhagavad Gita, there is this epic tale that's taking place on a battlefield, and and Arjuna is the warrior, but he's on this battlefield, and on the other side of the battlefield are his friends and his cousins, and he sees them, and Krishna is there in his chariot guiding him and says, You must fight. You're a warrior, this is your dharma. And he's like, No, how can I fight? These are people that I love. I can't, I can't do this, Krishna. And he cowers in into the bottom of his chariot, just saying, No, I'm not going to live up my dharma. And then the whole Bhagavad Gita goes on in the epic story of Krishna uh teacher Narjuna why he must fulfill his dharma as a warrior. Right? Knowing that you can't really kill anyone because there is no such thing as the consciousness dying.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So it's very powerful, but yes, that this this death that we we all will face at some point. We're already facing it. Think about how many deaths you've had in this one lifetime as Nate Johnson.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so we don't have to wait till we're dead to have reincarnations.
SPEAKER_03:Sure.
SPEAKER_00:You and I both have been reincarnated several times already in this one lifetime.
SPEAKER_05:No, I I I agree. I agree. Um, and it's and and you know, just as you grieve the death of a loved one, it it's it it's the same, it's the same uh in some situations when you grieve the death of a former version of yourself, you know. Oh my god, yeah. It's because I I mean that's because that's that's comfortable, that's safe, that's what you know. And when that doesn't align with what you who you are anymore, that's scary too. And there's some grief around that.
SPEAKER_00:It should be scary, right? Because and and that's part of what I was feeling this these last couple of days, because you know it takes a while once you've come into this new version of yourself. There's still that integration period that you have to settle into until that new you actually solidifies, right? And so there's this thing where you toggle back and forth between the old you, the new you, one foot in, one foot out, and um, and you know, creating the new boundaries in the new life, letting go of the old boundaries in the old life. And sometimes that means that people that used to be in your life are no longer in your life.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And so there's even a death that comes along with that process as you shift into a different vibration and resonancy, everything else in your life will shift. People that you once had meaningful relationships with, they either leave your life, and sometimes it just happens naturally. So there's even a death. And so to be attentive to those types of deaths that are happening in your life and to really recognize them and to honor them and to honor the death that you've had personally, but this old aspect of you, right? To honor that version of yourself and to say thank you, thank you for all of the work that you've done. Thank you for what you've held, uh, for what you represented, and then you can begin to shift into the new version of yourself. Well, we keep having these these deaths and rebirths through our entire life as we know ourselves as.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. You know, it's funny you talk about it. So there's there's the there's the death, and then there's the the grief, and then then as you settle into your new birth, there's this awareness that comes with, okay, well, now I have to relearn how to function as this new birth. And I like I liken it. Um I can tell you the exact emotions that I feel, and I've I've I've felt it, you know, in my 3D world here uh numerous times over the course of my life. Um I remember for any of you guys or girls out there that are athletes, I remember um, you know, going from like middle school football to high school football. And you know, you were a certain, you were a certain person or a certain level. This is all ego stuff anyway, but uh, but that's you know, that's some of our that's some of how we how we filter and uh assimilate all of this stuff, uh, or assimilate, um, is that you know you are a certain level of player in middle school, and then you go to high school and you start all over, you're a freshman again, and you're at the bottom of the total pole. And it's the hardest, it's the and and and you're getting your ass kicked every single day. And you look at the guys that are seniors and you think, oh man, those guys are light years ahead of me. And I'm never it's gonna, it's gonna, it's gonna be an eternity before I'm I'm I'm I'm to their level, and then you know, and then the summer passes and you you grow up a little bit, and you know, the practices aren't near as hard because you're not getting your ass kicked every single day as bad. And you know, maybe every once in a while you're doing a little bit of the ass kicking, you know what I mean? By the time senior year comes around, you're that way, and then and guess what? You're on the top of the world, everybody thinks you're awesome, and then now it's time to go to college and you do it over again. Let's let's do it again, and you know what? So that that's the sports analogy. But I had the same things happen when I would transition from company to company in corporate America. You know, you've you've developed a relationship and a reputation of who you are and what your skill set is, and people know you, and then you start over in a new a new environment, and you've got to do it all over again. And and that's and and there's this this weight and burden of the unknown. Um, and your ego says, Can you do it again? Can you can you can you do it?
SPEAKER_06:You you've you've done it.
SPEAKER_05:You can you do it again? Um, and um, and I it's funny because as as as these phases and stages and deaths and rebirths have happened, um, it almost feels a little bit like that again. Like, okay, what's coming on the horizon? Except, except when I look back, you know, um every single time that there was a stepping over into the next phase, if you were to stop and look back at the path you traveled, it was always an ascension. There might have been little small ups and downs and ups and downs, but it was always a climb. And um no matter, no matter if you felt that step into the new company or then you know that next you know freshman year of college when you were getting your ass kicked again, um, it was always still an up and uh an ascension. And um that um that's kind of how this spiritual journey is, is that you know you're gonna you're gonna make some progress and then you're gonna get your ass kicked pretty hard. And you know, you're gonna have to sit down and reflect and say, Man, will it ever feel as good as it felt three weeks ago? You know what I mean? And then and then you work through and then you do your work, and then you work through it, and you um reach another level that you're saying, man, this is great. This is what I've all this is exact, and then bam, time to start back over. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00:Um yes, and you know, and it's designed that way on purpose, right? Because it's also even happening energetically on an energetic level, and so people sometimes think, oh yeah, you know, for for those who use chakra terminology, it's like, oh yes, I've I've I've mastered my first three chakras and I've come into my heart. Well, whenever we grow into the new self, it is we do have to start over again, and now we have to master that new embodiment of who we are, right? Right. So that that that is how it is. So it isn't about oh my god, I've reached enlightenment. And even just to say that you've reached enlightenment is an egoic, uh yeah, is being very egoic. Because if you have to say that you're enlightened, that's not being enlightened, right?
SPEAKER_05:Right, yeah. I um, but no, I it's it's funny how it's funny how. How the um the metaphysical or cosmic journey mimics life in a way. And you know, just as there is birth and death in physical life and this body in this space suit, as Ramda says, um it's it's the same, it's the same as in the phases of your spiritual journey, and um death is a piece of all of it, and um it's definitely a great teacher.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, it's the master teacher. Death is the master teacher, and you know the hardest part, I think, for so many of us that we we struggle with where death is concerned is relationships, right? And so um you go through a breakup, you go through a divorce, or you're you're actually going through a physical loss of someone, right? Those those are all deaths, you know, going with the break, uh, uh a breakup or a divorce, those are deaths.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, right?
SPEAKER_00:And and to to really pause and honor the death that's happening in you and what that's what that death is bringing up inside of you, like to really pause and do the work before hopping into another relationship, which is what most people do, right? We they hop just right into another relationship, taking all of that on-process grief with them. And now you're sharing yourself that on-processed grief with this new person, yeah, you know. Um, so to to really be attentive to the full experience of what it means to be human, meaning that whatever is ending in my life, can I be attentive to this small death? Right, and this the small deaths we're talking about, but the small deaths are also preparing us for these larger for the for the finale, the final act, when we do have to um leave the spacesuit here.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Well, with every single death up until the final one, when we return back to being one with source, God, whatever, there's always a rebirth. And yes, and and as long as you're doing your work, uh it's always it's you're always birthed into a better position than you died in. Always. It's always a climb, you know?
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:So I I don't I just I I think you know, it's it's and I think that the in the east, they do a really good job of this, where we in the west have not really incorporated this, but um, where death in the east is a is a celebration, it's a it's a it's an homage to the person to say, hey, this chapter of theirs is complete. And they it's all it's good awesome for them because now they're moving on to something bigger and better. Where for us, we're and we're so ego-driven in the West, we're like, oh wow, this couldn't get any better than this. And you know, you know, of course, you know, what whatever. You know, it's it's a we it's it's a it's we're crying because they're no longer here when we should be we should be cheering and saying, awesome job. You know, now you're moving on to to to something bigger and better than than than here.
SPEAKER_00:So oh absolutely. Like people ask me if I'm afraid of death. I'm not afraid of the dying of death itself and moving on to whatever comes next. If I were to have a fear, it would be of uh the suffering leading up to death.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, that's tough.
SPEAKER_00:That that part, you know, I I don't want to suffer, and it it's you know why in my in my will I have, you know, if I don't want to be hooked up, take me off. I've already have my directives in that way. But the the aspect of of actually letting go, you know, I'm gonna have a big smile on my face. You know, I I hope and pray that, you know, it I don't have any control as to how it happens, I don't have a looking glass, but the work that I do every day with myself of letting go, of surrendering, of of being with these things, I hope will prepare me for that final that final breath, that this final walkthrough um in in this life to be okay letting it go.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_05:You know what? And I'm sitting here thinking about this, and I agree with everything you just said, but we're sitting here talking about this like we haven't died 10,000 times before.
SPEAKER_01:We have, right, exactly, exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_06:We've died so many times it's uncountable, and we're sitting here talking about it like Yeah, yeah, like how we how how are we ever gonna make it through it?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes, yeah, it's true. But here's here's the real thing about why we're afraid of death. What does death actually symbolize? And it's why people are so deathly afraid of it. One one word that begins with C.
SPEAKER_05:C. Um, I was gonna say, I was gonna say because it's unknown, but um, but what is it?
SPEAKER_00:That change.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, change. Well, sure, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, death symbolizes change, right? Uh and Ajan change.
SPEAKER_05:The ultimate, the ultimate change.
SPEAKER_00:The ultimate change, right? But even even even the death of the of the small things in our lives, how many people actually like change?
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Not many, right? And so uh this quote by Ajahn Shah says, not want the things to change. If we think like this, we must suffer. When we think that the body is ourselves or belongs to us, we are afraid when we see it change. And we can actually take this particular quote and look out into the world to see how deathly afraid we are of aging.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Talk about death, right? We have all this anti-aging stuff that's out there, right? And so we're so afraid of the change of our youthfulness into the the elder wisdom aspect of our lives. And because here in the west, again, like we've been saying, we don't honor the elderly. The elderly is looked upon as decrepit, they're old, their their their life vitality is gone. But yet in the east, the elderly are revered. They're revered. So here in the west, we're fighting aging tooth and nail. Right?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And it's it's a death that that we don't want to we want to keep denying what is so very normal. We are like nature. Nature has its season of death, fall.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So why are we any different?
SPEAKER_05:You know, what you just said is is spot on, and it it reminds me of I don't remember it was maybe episode three or four we talked about attachment. And that's a change, you know, fear of change is attachment.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:It's exactly what you know. The quote you just said is basically the exact version of Buddha saying, you know, suffering attachment is the root of all suffering. So, you know, the only goal that I think that one should have in this life is to be able to continue to ascend at the late rate that they are able to, and try not their best not to create more, you know, karma. But but a beautiful death would be one that at the end that you're you have no attachment, you just let it happen. You know, I see these, uh, you know, I'm I'm in the midst of I I love autobiography of Yogi. This book, uh, if you guys haven't read it, it's it's amazing. Promise Sanda Yogananda. I'm I'm in it's got like 912 chapters, and I think I'm I'm I'm in chapter 872. So like I'm I'm I'm on the decline. I see, I see the finish line, I'm getting there, but it's this this amazing thing that happens with some of these these very um you know elderly um um when I say elderly, I mean like well-established and respected and amazingly um gifted um guru yogis, and that they they see their bodies beginning to break down and could and could do something about it if they wanted to. But they are so they are so faithful uh and knowing about what's on the other side of death that they just let it happen. Yeah, they they let it happen, you know, and that is just an amazing that's that is that is like the ultimate the ultimate thing is to be you're you're so unattached and your ego is so gone that you you don't even identify with your body anymore, and you you and you will make no efforts to try to save your own body.
SPEAKER_00:No, because you know from one of my yeah, yeah, good. You're not that's not who you are, because that's not who you are, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. You know, there we're drinking the the the proper Kool-Aid.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, yeah. I'd like to get a couple doses of that, right?
SPEAKER_06:Like now, yeah, I'll take a full gallon of that that Kool-Aid. Full gallon. Because I mean, because I mean, in all honesty, like we get glimpses of that, right?
SPEAKER_05:We get little tastes here and there.
SPEAKER_06:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:Like these these moments of absolute clarity where you're like, oh yeah, uh, I I'm not this body. And and then it's like the phone rings, you get a text message, or the bill comes, or you know, you know, you somebody's asking you to do something, you got to answer the email, or like whatever it is, you know what I mean? Like it's so it's it's learning how to live in that space, drink that Kool-Aid, and function as a function in the matrix as a human being.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. We have to include the and we have to include because we have to participate in the realm that we have chosen to come into, which for us is earth, right? We're earthlings. Um and so you know, choosing to fully participate is necessary, um, unless you've chosen the path of a of a of a of a guru or an aesthetic where you're gonna go off in a monastery or whatever, or like the desert mother and fathers did. Um, but uh to to have that practice, this daily practice and um of simply being with what's coming and going in your life, the practice of surrender. Can I surrender what is in this moment? You know, what's what's taking up so much space in my life that's that's choking the life out of me, right? Um, and and can I can I surrender that? Um, we're going after something, we're always going after something. And when we get that something, we're still not satisfied and we have to go after something else. And so it's like, okay, how much do I really need in order to be happy?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so this attainment of more, more, more, um, is actually what's crushing us from actually living fully because there's never any satisfaction. We never get to a satisfied point in life.
SPEAKER_05:Right. Yeah, and I don't wanna I don't want to derail the the topic of discussion here, but but really it's it's really actually to bring it home here because we're gonna run out of time in a second. But what you're talking about, that that chase for more, that that that's all ego. That that's that's all ego. And um and that's what led me to you, right? That's I was there. That was me. That was me in the beginning phases of of trying to continue to climb a higher mountain than I'd climbed before, because maybe if I reach the next highest mountain, I'll stand up and say, Okay, I'm feel I feel good about myself and who I am, and I can I can rest. But what we found, or you know, at least through working through all of this, has been that and I'm not sitting here saying that my ego is dead because it's not. I'm I've I've I fight with him every single day. Um but but what I have found and what can kick the ego's ass from time to time is that self-love. If you love yourself, regardless of your materialistic or your paycheck or your how many likes you get on Instagram or all of those things, um that is how to defeat that. That that that always needing more is, you know, and I think you you said this quote to me um in an amazing, amazing session that we had had. Um and it was um if you can't love yourself when you're nobody, you're never gonna be able to love yourself when you're somebody, you know what I mean? And that and that is it, and um, and if you can do that, that's the death of the ego, and that's where the freedom is.
SPEAKER_00:Right. I remember, I remember that session, and and I think it's it's something we all need to remember, right? It's uh because we we can bring the ego into a healthy state where it can work with us rather than against us. Um, and then we can begin to build this deep intimacy with living and dying. We must walk, we must create an intimacy with both because the dying will inform the living and how you live will inform how you die. Yep, right? Um, it's it's both. Um, but I'd like to uh um share a little bit something before we wrap up.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, there is no need to fear death, and this is coming from living the book Living in the Light of Death on the Art of Being Truly Alive. There is no need to fear death, don't create sneers to catch yourself and hurt yourself. There is no death to the mind, there is nothing but awareness, pure and simple. Death doesn't exist in the mind, which is something a hundred percent unalterable and sure. And so the mind here is really the consciousness, not the brain that we have inside the head. Um, we human beings, when we have stopped breathing, are called dead people. At that moment, the knower separates from the elements so that nothing is left but physical elements with no feelings. That's a dead person. But actuality, but actually, the knower doesn't die. Yeah, and so it's in the Tibetan Book of the Dead, and you know, it's uh when someone is termed clinically dead, that's just on a physical level, right? Right? Their consciousness is actually still fully alive and they're no longer bound by space and time. And so when my husband died, because I had just taken that course in Thailand uh with the Tibetan uh Book of the Dead, um, I went into doing work um for him because now I realize oh, his consciousness is everywhere. I can talk to him and tell him not to be afraid, yeah, and that his body has died, that he's fine. And I knew he was listening because they're they can still hear you, even though they're clinically uh have been pronounced dead. So there's so much power in this conversation that you know we can have uh we can spend hours talking about this. And I think it's it's such a a rich topic that I'll know we'll probably revisit at a later time. And if any of your listeners are listening, you have a difficult time and you want to reach out to either myself or Nate um uh to have any kind of support, reach out to us, you know, if you're struggling with this, please do.
SPEAKER_05:And you and you haven't mentioned this directly, but I'm gonna do it for you. Um, is that you have an amazing grief counseling or grief integration um program that you facilitate. And um, in fact, uh a very close family member of mine um has gone through it and she said it was an absolutely life-changing and uh amazing for her. So that's another thing if you're listening to this and you're struggling with grief management um because of a death of someone, or maybe even for something else, but uh by all means, um I think that uh you've got a great resource here in Esche to reach out to as well.
SPEAKER_00:Well, thank you for that, Nate.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, guys, we're gonna reach, we're gonna wrap this one up. Uh, this is the end of uh episode uh nine. Wow, we got this, we're on nine already. Um, anything else from you?
SPEAKER_00:You know, I think I'm complete.
SPEAKER_05:Okay. Guys, thank you so much for listening, and we will see you soon. Bye.
SPEAKER_00:Bye, everyone.