Holy Shit!! With Nate & Esha
A beginners guide to spiritual awakening, the metaphysical, unconditional love and all things "whoo whoo". Told from the perspective an average dude and a majestic shaman. ;)
Holy Shit!! With Nate & Esha
Episode 26 - Loneliness & Connection
In this episode, Nate & Esha discuss the epidemic of loneliness in our culture and how we can help each other navigate it. We discuss how deep connection and community can help counteract loneliness.
Hey everyone, welcome to episode 26 of the Holy Shit with Nate and Esha podcast. Got a good one today. Uh, we're gonna be talking about the epidemic of loneliness. And um lots of information to share about that. And uh looking forward to getting into it. Esha, how are you?
SPEAKER_00:I'm good, having a good day and glad we've gotten some warmer temperatures from the freeze that we had. I had some outdoor pipes that burst on me. Oh no. Um yeah, I was happy that it was outdoors. That's a silver line in there. Um I thought those pipes were turned off and uh there weren't, but um got those turned off.
SPEAKER_01:Um how cold did it? So so for those listening, Esha's in North Carolina and I'm in Nashville. Uh how how the how cold did it get to you?
SPEAKER_00:We dropped down to about 15 at night, would be 15 degrees. Oh no snow, but we got down into teets. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. We got we got down into the negatives, I think, with some cold chill with the wind chill. Oh wow. Yeah, like one or two nights. It was I know that I know that the I know that the temperature was probably one or two degrees without the wind chill. So it had to have been it had to have been lower than that. Uh but um fortunately I I don't think I had any, I didn't, I didn't not at my house, and I've I've got a couple rental properties too that I I think we managed to get away without having, but last last year I did. Um Christmas of 2022, I had like three different houses that that happened at, you know, so um, but yeah, whether it's inside or outside, it still sucks.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah, it gave me a little bit of anxiety because I came home and and the water, my my daughter's like, there's no hot water upstairs. I'm like, huh, that's strange. And um, and then I noticed that the water pressure was pretty low.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And so I had I went around, I went down to um the water uh boiler, the boiler room, and check out like everything looks fine, and and so I'm looking, like you know, I'm investigating, then I finally go outside. We have there's a sink outside, right? I never I never use this thing, and I never think about it, and there's just water everywhere.
SPEAKER_02:Oh no.
SPEAKER_00:So, you know, I'm panicking and I'm under us, like, oh, which one what do you know, which one of the knobs is to turn off the water? So I figured that out, and then I hear gushing water somewhere else. I'm like, what the and so and I look, and under the deck, there are these pipes that run under the deck. So the previous owners had a shower they installed on the second story deck, right? So there's just water gushing everywhere from those pipes, and I'm like, fuck. So I run back and I was like trying to figure out well, where is it, where's the the the turnoff valve for those?
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:So it took me a while to figure it out, and at this point, like I'm dripping wet already, it's cold. Oh my hands are freezing, you know. I have a little bit of anxiety at this point. Um, so I finally found it and turned it off, and that was my that was my Saturday. Yeah. Oh good.
SPEAKER_01:Did they come in and fix all the burst pipes or did you just reroute around them?
SPEAKER_00:I just reroute it. I couldn't get anyone because how many other people had burst pipes inside their house, most as my outside pipe.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah, I mean that was the other thing too. Uh you know, um last year when it happened, there was so many that it happened at that they the insurance team, I think they sent out like some type of like um what do they call it, like incident response situation, like a tornado or a hurricane because so many burst pipes in our area. It got down to negative negative 20s last year about this time.
SPEAKER_00:That's crazy. Yeah, so this I didn't realize that you guys got that your temperature gets so cold.
SPEAKER_01:It doesn't normally, it was like a hundred year cold. Oh wow, yeah, it was like the coldest it had been in a hundred years last like last Christmas in 2022. Yeah. Anyway, this podcast is not about cold temperatures or burst pipes. We're gonna talk about okay. So I when I before, you know, when Ash and I were talking about what we were gonna um meet about, you know, she brought this topic up. And you know, it's been something that I've uh I've seen on the you know on social media and I've seen different you know people talk about it, but you know, you were reading some statistics to me um earlier that were pretty unbelievable. Um, you want to share a little bit of that information about this uh this loneliness epidemic that they're calling it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so you know, before I even get to that, I you know, I want to say how this topic is really, really important because there's so many people that are suffering from lack of connection. And especially as we start off, you know, a brand new year, how can we shed light on the things that are actually affecting maybe people that we know, our neighbors, right? Everyone from the outside looks normal, like everything is okay. Yes, but we really don't know what's what's what they're going through on the inside. Um, and I'm not sure what we can do. So part of, you know, when I found this out last year, and I'm like, I started thinking, I was like, well, what can I do to in in the sphere of my world and my wheelhouse um to create a difference? And I I don't know that I have an answer for that yet. Um but here are some of the things, and and this is what I'm reading, and anyone can find it. This is from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and this was released May 3rd of last year, and um the Surgeon General um said, and I'll just read it, um, he's calling attention to the public health crisis of loneliness, isolation, and lack of connection in our country. Says even before the onset of COVID-19 pandemic, approximately half of U.S. adults reported experiencing measurable levels of loneliness. He goes on to say that this disconnection affects our mental, physical, and societal health. He says, in fact, loneliness and isolation increase the risk for individuals to develop mental health challenges in their lives, and lacking connection can increase the risk for premature death to levels comparable to smoking daily. Like that's like a big wow factor right there, right?
SPEAKER_01:Right. You said you said earlier when we were talking that like that that number is increased by 60% premature.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so let me go to that um the statistics there. It says here the physical health consequences of poor or insufficient connection include a 29 increased risk of heart disease, a 32 increased risk of stroke, a 50% increase of developing dementia for older adults. Additionally, lack and social connection increases risk of premature death by more than 60%.
SPEAKER_01:So so just let's just focus on the last two there. Like as you're getting older without connection, not only are you 50% chance more that you're gonna lose connection with reality, and that 60% chance you're gonna die faster than us. That's insane.
SPEAKER_00:It is insane, and no one is talking about this. This is the thing that I don't get, is no one is actually talking about it.
SPEAKER_01:That that though those two numbers right there, um they're so staggering. I mean, give me give me something else out there that's a prerequisite to a for sure it's gonna increase your chances by like this much. What is it? Yes, I mean, smoking might be the thing, but like what else? I don't know. I don't know that if you're a drug addict, that your chances of uh you know for sure death death, premature death is 60 percent.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that might be lower than this, actually, which is so surprising, is it not?
SPEAKER_01:No, I guarantee you it's lower than 60 percent. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Which is like, what the hell? Um, you know, if people if people out there were like, hey, listen, um you've got a 40% chance of survival if you do this, make a decision.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:That's increase, that's crazy. You know, so you know, as you as you were reading those statistics earlier, you know, we've talked about the concept of community and purpose. And I mean, like even last, even last con uh last uh episode, we talked about finding your why and your passion. And you know, I think all of this kind of ties in together. And you know, if if you're a listener of this podcast, you know I have an affinity for you know Native American culture and and tribes and just that whole tribal lifestyle, which I think, you know, in the beginning days of humanity, it was just natural because people we populated the earth in pods of people that we were located closely geographically, and you know, there really wasn't a whole lot of explored spaces yet. So we slowly separated from each other. And in the meantime, because the the separation was slow, we lived in communities, and those times, you know, there was a lot of connection, a lot of daily connection with not just those with not just your parents or your or your siblings. Um, and not only that, but your value was never in question. And I think that a lot of that comes into play here because if you feel valued, if you feel like you're you're you're giving something to a community of people, it's a lot it's a lot easier to not feel lonely, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00:Um right. Well, he go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:No, go ahead, please.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, no, no. What you just said brought up um something that I'm reading here. So he gives six foundational pillars of things that we need to establish as a national strategy to advance social connection.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, what are we?
SPEAKER_00:The first one it goes directly to what you're speaking about here, um, where he says strengthen social infrastructure. Connections are not just influenced by individual interactions, but by the physical elements of a community, parks, libraries, programs, and programs and policies in place. Um, to strengthen social infrastructure, communities must design environments that promote connection, establish and scale community connection programs, and invest in institutions that bring people together.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and he says social connection is beneficial for individual health. He said, but also improves the resiliency of our communities. Um, evidence shows that increased connection can help reduce the risk of serious health conditions, which we talked about, and depression, putting depression in there as well.
SPEAKER_02:Right, right.
SPEAKER_00:Communities where residents are more connected with one another, fear better on several measures of population: health, community safety, community resiliency, when natural disasters strike, prosperity, and civic engagement. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No, I mean it there's this piece of I I remember whenever I I first started working with you and Bill Wilder, he sent me this um this video, and if I if I can find it, I'll I'll post a link to it in the notes. But it talked about um um it was ancestral grief, but it was more around, but it was more around the lack of tribal living. That's right. You know what I mean? Like it was more like this this like your body and your soul, whether or not you, whether or not your mind acknowledges it, there's this yearning in your soul for community and and connection. And we have become such independent entities in the last, let's say, hundred years, that you know, we're it's all about me, it's all about the ego, it's all about the how can I be somebody and establish myself something separate from the tribe so I can make myself feel more valued when actually where we have it broken, when the way that you feel more valued is being part of the tribe and being uh you know a valued member of a larger community, right? You know, and it's not about the separation, it's not about the the ident personal identity, it's more like how do I fit into this larger puzzle of more people, right?
SPEAKER_00:Which which I'm laughing because when you're by yourself, how do you measure value?
SPEAKER_01:It it's it's a pretty subjective opinion, right?
SPEAKER_00:And so you can only really experience that when you're a part of the other end. I like to see it otherwise.
SPEAKER_01:But you see it, you see it two different ways because when you are isolated and and judging your value, you're either depressed or you're narcissistic. It's one of the two, right?
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_01:You know, rarely do you find somebody that's balanced and they you know it's it's it's there, but then you add in the fact that okay, let's I my my understanding and in and and impact on my community and reality is primarily based upon the opinions and or at least the reactions, or at least my understanding and and interactions with other people. Like, how am I and um you know you just take I don't think it's any coincidence at all where you take take people away from community, you take people away from um individual one-on-one interaction. Let's let's just talk about it like this. Right now in 2024, if I didn't want to leave my house, I could survive, I could do it. I could have my groceries delivered, I could have all my food delivered. I would never have to speak to a human. No, I could live, I could live years and never speak to a human. Yep. Which granted, if that's a personal choice because you prefer solidarity and you're going out and living in the woods somewhere or whatever, and there's it's a different you're you're connected with nature or whatever, whatever. But in this situation, if you are if you are isolating yourself, I it's I don't know, like society is saying we we've become so convenient, quote unquote, that like we are we have almost um tried to be so efficient we've removed the necessity of human interaction.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but you know, it's it's not just so there's another side to all of this, right? Um because yes, you know, while technology and the way things are in the last 20 years have have guided us into where we are now, um, but there's also another side. You can we can completely be in relationships where we we're coming home to someone and we're still lonely, right? As a as a massage therapist, I have seen this over and over again, particularly with my male clients, where I've been told that one of the reasons that they come to get massages is that they get touched.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Right? And we're just talking about tactile connection, right? Yeah, yeah, physical connection. Right. Um and I think we forget about tactile connection. Our skin is our biggest organ, right? And yet that organ rarely gets touched, right, nourished, sure, right? You know, and so there's this sense of I think there's there needs to be some responsibility or some awareness for those of us who are in relationships, or even if we're parents to younger children, um, to pause for a moment and say, Well, how do I actually connect with my with the people that I love?
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Like what is what is the physical connection, right? Because you can be married or in a relationship with someone and you don't really get touched. Well, you know, maybe when you're making love and you know, you kind of get touched, but that's not even a whole body touch.
SPEAKER_01:Well, what you started to say a second ago, and I thought that was the angle that you were gonna go down, is you can be in a relationship and be married to someone and probably feel 10 times lonelier than you would if you were by yourself.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, 100%.
SPEAKER_01:Because the lack of the commute, the lack of the connection with the person in your house every single day makes you feel even more lonely. Yes, yes, you know what I'm saying? It's like if you are literally by yourself and alone, well, that's almost like that's an expectation, of course. You know, I all I need to go is make go out and seek if I if I can identify this as something I'm trying to do, then I can go out and seek human interaction. If you are at if you are coming home to someone that you're trying to be connecting with and not it it it's uh it compounds it, you know, it does. And I don't and I don't know, like, and I don't know if it what it is. I think that like um, you know, I going back to the the social media and uh connection, you know, the internet connections, and I I think we, you know, and listen, I I I've I find myself guilty of this from time. I'm not judging anybody, it's easy to do, is that you know, we find ourselves, you know, connected at all times with this phone or this internet or data or information that like instead of sitting there talking about how your day was, you know, we're scrolling or we're you know, I don't know. It's just it's it's very easy to to fall into that trap. And if you're not careful, you get in a situation where you're coming home from work and the there it's just empty pleasantries, like discuss, like there's no real, raw, deep discussion connection, and then and then you just fall under this routine, and to your point, um the physical touch starts to dis uh disintegrate, and then it's like well, then the the emotional deep conversation connection starts to disintegrate, right? And before you know it, you're you basically you're just two people living in the same address.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and you know, and and this is where like health health starts at home, right? It starts with these familiar connections that we have, and um and how we feel, like you said, we're being valued at home, um, how we're being nourished at home, how we're being seen at home, seen and witnessed, appreciated, acknowledged. You know, all of those things are so important when we're talking about loneliness. Um, because there's there's something um at a at a deep soul level that that that individual who is lonely is seeking. And most of it is like, I'm not being seen or heard.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Being seen is like to me, I I think that is that's an epidemic, and that's what uh causes a lot of people to to lash out or to or to or to feel like they are feel like they are alone because they feel like unseen, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Uh yes. Um but you know, I I I don't know if it's yeah, and like you said before, you know, we've we've all been guilty of not you know paying our loved ones the attention, right? Because we're tired, we're exhausted by the time we come home. Yes, you know, all all of that, all of that is true. And um it's also our responsibility to make sure that we're checking in, right? You know, like real conversations. Hey babes, how are you doing today? Tell me about your day. Yeah, I want to make these next 10 minutes about you.
SPEAKER_01:Sure.
SPEAKER_00:You know, um, and just give that person time. You know, one of the things I love about my youngest daughter is that, you know, she is never too shy to ask me, hey mom, I just need to be held, or can you massage me or can you touch me or something, or you know, and she just comes in and she asks for it. And and I love that she takes um control of that and tells me, Hey, this is what I need.
SPEAKER_01:It's pretty self-aware. Yeah, she is for a 22-year-old, you know, like to say, hey, listen, I'm I'm running a little low here. I need to, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she gets it, and you know, um, but you know where is this, if this trend continues, if this epidemic continues, where are we headed as a humanity?
SPEAKER_01:Well, you know, I think it's I think it starts, you know, it it it's it starts with a little bit of what we're already seeing is that like it's easier to divide when everyone feels individual and alone.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:You know, like when you when you're when you're less of a community, it's easier to tell one group something and and steer them one way or whatever. And listen, I we don't want to go in like some big rabbit hole here, but I think that I really think that the loneliness epidemic is is in direct or indirectly intentionally caused. Um and you know, when it comes to when it comes to that, you know, um people are a lot harder to control when they're one unit and a community a lot and connected. Just look, just look around. Let's look around right now. And and and you know, we had this, you know, you and I had this conversation the other day, and like I I'm not gonna take this down this direction, but I just want to make this statement, you know. Uh for those of you all who have never seen uh Esha or I, I'm a white male and Esha's a black female, and you know, we have some conversations, some real conversations about about you know gender and race and sexuality and all of these things, and it's just like the the the narrative out there is that we're more divided than ever. And I just you know, I look at Esha and I'm like, how can that really be true? Right, it's so true. I don't believe that. So at the same time, while I'm at the same time that I'm sitting here reading that we have this loneliness epidemic, which I believe is is accurate, don't get me wrong. I think a lot of it is stemming from the crap that we're being fed. Yeah, that there is no hope. Turn on the TV and the damn world's falling. Why even anymore, people? You know, everybody hates each other. You know, you've got this person that's hates this person, race relations are worse than they ever been. Nobody knows if they're a man or a woman or whoever anymore, and people need to hate each other because of that. And you bet you know, like all of these things that like you know, I I I just it's all it's all just a bunch of noise.
SPEAKER_00:And uh yeah, it you know, I was gonna say, I think people need to stop listening to what they hear on the news and actually go and have an experience of it for themselves in the real world.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, right?
SPEAKER_00:It's like, you know, I have most of my friends are Caucasian, right? And you know, some on Friday, last Friday night, we went out. My girlfriends, we call ourselves like the multicultural group. We have two, two, two of my best friends are German from Germany, one is from Mexico City, and and I'm from South America, right? Right, and so we have this uh sort of like this melting pot. And once in a while we go out, and so we went to this drifters concert on Friday, and it was mostly older people there, which was actually fun. Um, and then we got an opportunity while they were singing some songs to dance, and it didn't matter, it's like I'm dancing and having fun with everyone that's there. And you know, you know, everyone that knows me knows that I love to dance, and so went to the bathroom during the intermission, and this woman comes in, white woman, and and she's like, I was watching you dance. She's like, Oh my god, you are an amazing dancer. She's like, I'm gonna be keeping my eye on you and trying to get some moves, right? And I mean, and it just brought joy to my heart because we are more liked and different.
SPEAKER_01:You know, I I recall a scenario where I remember this, I was working for this company, and um I can't remember what it was. I was in some like leadership development class, and it was a Dale Dale Carnegie. I don't know if you're familiar with Del Carnegie, but he was a kind of like thought leader back in the early 20s, and uh a lot of his stuff is very is very impactful, um, especially from a profession professional development stance, even from a personal development stance. Um, and um there was this we did this course, and it was like 12 people in this class. And I remember we started that class as strangers, and as the class developed, it was a lot of presentation and a lot of discussing your emotions and a lot of discussing your challenges, and a lot of discussing your own wins and losses, and how you feel about things, and right you would stand up in front of this group of people and basically pour your heart and soul out. And and what happened by the end of that like 12 week week class was that we all became pretty close, you know, and there was there was everybody from every race and gender in this in this class, you know. And what I got what I recall from that is we got to talking at the end of saying shared experiences is what brings people together, it isn't where you're from, it isn't it isn't who you are, it isn't who your daddy was, it isn't, you know, it isn't your last name, it isn't how much money you have. Like if if if people could just get together in a room and set your egos aside, let's all talk, let's all be vulnerable, let's share what we our wins and dreams and losses and whatever we want to talk about. By the end of that night, week, month, whatever, you're talking about a group of people that are connected and that they have an affinity now and a connection and a love for each other that a lot of people before that would see this stranger walking down the seat street and say, I have nothing in common with that person.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:When really we are so much more alike, more alike than we think.
SPEAKER_00:We really are, and and you know what what I would hope for us as we move into this brand new year is that we take the time to go and discover that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It has to be an intentionality like you talked about with your daughters.
SPEAKER_01:You've got to go do this. Yeah, but I really think I really think that if you're intentional about it and you go out seeking, you will find people that will reciprocate.
SPEAKER_00:And it requires getting out of your comfort zone.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Right? You know, we're so used to staying in a place of sameness, you know. We go to the same park or the same coffee house or the same pub, or you know, we visit these same, you know, and we go to these same places where people like me look like, you know, where I can find people who look like me.
SPEAKER_01:It's safe.
SPEAKER_00:It's safe. But and and and speaking honestly, if we are to grow, we have to go beyond our own borders. We have to open ourselves to experiencing what the other is like, right? And and and to put yourself in an uncomfortable position to see well, what comes up inside of me when I'm around something that is different from what I'm used to. It's vulnerable, it's an act of vulnerability, yes. But that vulnerability is how you're going to know more about who you are as a as a as an individual and person.
SPEAKER_01:You know what's crazy about this? And I just had this like as you're talking, I literally had this image. Like, think about it like in a chronological timeline. We talked, we started this podcast talking about tribes and about how the reason they existed, and and and you just said you have to push yourself beyond borders and go, right? And and and that's exactly what they did, and exactly what we learned and got conditioned to, and have gotten to this point now of continuing to push away and self-identify, where really it's it's time to recorrect and come back to that. And and what we talk about this on this podcast a lot in spirituality and personal growth, it's always a this and right, and that's what we've done is we've over we've overshot the individual expression. That's right. And and and and it's and it's time it's time to kind of come back around and say, I can be an individual, but how does that fit into the greater good of the community?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And both can happen. It can't be both. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:You can have both. But but you know, it's kind of like the Bill Wilder Wilder thing is that like what happens, and the reason we start to feel alone or feel empty is because we think we want all of one and none of the other. Right. Right.
SPEAKER_00:You know, and I think through to truly individuate doesn't mean that you have to leave the tribe.
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_00:Right? It means that you're coming into your own unique expression within the tribe. Yes. And that you're allowed to have that unique expression of yourself within the tribe. And so it could be that something that you do so uniquely is needed as a skill within that tribe, which is now assigned to you. And you get to express that freely and to and to do it. But you're still within the macrocosm of the tribe.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And you know what? Your personal growth and expression and and seeking outside might it might help you decide and grow outside of the capabilities of the tribe you're with. So it might be time to go find another tribe.
SPEAKER_00:Or not. Exactly. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:Like we're not sitting here saying that you must conform to the tribe and make sure that you operate within the guidelines of the tribe. No, it's not what we're saying. We're saying the tribe is a necessary organism that helps a lot of things happen. But you might need to find a new tribe. And if you are in the if you are in the path that we're talking about of personal and spiritual growth and expansion, I guarantee him to you, you're going to probably find the new tribe than the one you're probably with now or we were five years ago. You know, like it's going to happen.
SPEAKER_00:It is. And it's, you know, it's important to individuate. It's important to go beyond, you know. So we could also talk about the tribe like mentality. You know, we're not talking about staying in the tribe like mentality because that has dangers too, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Which we're we're talked about. So it that's not what I'm really talking about. It's it's it's more in the sense of I can be uniquely me and be so uniquely accepted by the people in my environment that I call my tribe. Um that I don't have to go and live in a cave because I feel like I'm not accepted. So we're, you know, as as this is relating to what this topic of this podcast, you know, loneliness. Part of the loneliness we feel is because there's some aspect of me that feels I am not accepted by society.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:I'm either seen as weird or you know, different, cuckoo, woo-woo, whatever it is, because society has set up these norms that says I don't fit into the traditional mold of what a man or a woman or whoever should look like. Right? And of course, now with social media, it it's it's like it now gives people who are already feeling as if they're on the outskirts and the fringes of all of that, just an opportunity to withdraw even more.
SPEAKER_01:And I everything you're saying is spot on. And I don't I please, if you're younger than 30 and you're listening to this, don't take any offense to this. But um I I think that there's and this is my opinion, so I could be completely wrong, but I don't I do think that there's a correlation between loneliness now versus loneliness 30 years ago. And and and here's what I will tell you is I think that a lot of young people have been have been conditioned into seeking connection through the internet, which I'm not knocking. I think that it can be a viable tool. I think that you can find very it's much easier to find interest groups or people that are interested in the same things that you are and that kind of thing. You can get information and learn how to new techniques and tactile. It's so there are a lot of good things, but I do to to your point as earlier talking about the tactile connection with other human beings. I do think that there still is a necessity for one-on-one human interaction with conversation. Yes, that that a lot that that sometimes gets replaced with I'm gonna interact with you over this screen and this keyboard, and you do not get the same thing out of that. The energetic exchange is not the same, it's not the same.
SPEAKER_00:You will never get that pure energetic connection direct attention or direct uh connection, skin to skin contact gives you.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:You will never get that from technology.
SPEAKER_01:Well, not even not even skin-to-skin contact, but even just but even like if I'm sitting with you across the table from a coffee shop having a conversation, yeah, versus if I've only ever talked to you over a screen, it's it's it's it's way different.
SPEAKER_00:You know, it's it's it's it's completely different. Um, you know, the nervous system is such a complex system. Um and you know, we're still learning so much about it, but I know from my experience in working with people as a touch therapist, uh how very important it is. Like you just my client this morning, you know, he's been uh coming for 10 years, right? He's been married for a very long time, and he was saying this morning how why he continues to come. He's like, this is not just you know therapy for my body. He's like, but it's also therapy for me mentally.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_00:You know, and um, and so I I think we we overlook um the areas in our lives that you know we tend not to give too much attention to um because we we sort of think, oh well, you know, it's just my body or it's just whatever. But the loneliness piece too, I want to add on here, and I think you you you sort of touched on it earlier. Um connection. What does connection really mean? Um for me personally, connection means that I can have a deep conversation with a person, you know. Uh I'm not really one for superficial conversations, small talk. It's I'm not a big fan of that. Um to really be able to sit and actually have a deep conversation with a person that nourishes the soul.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:How many of us are having deep conversations?
SPEAKER_01:And and and honest ones at that, and honest, deep and honest conversation, right?
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:I've had a lot of deep conversations with people that I'm like, you're full of shit.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know, so it's it's deep and honest, is uh is definitely the connection, is the is the is the recipe for connection for sure.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And and and then not even it always doesn't have to be super deep. Well, I guess by deep, it could just mean vulnerable, it could just mean open and honest, you know what I mean? Like you're not putting you're not putting this shield of protection up around you. Um you know what I mean. That because there's a lot that can be said, and I know I know with with men, this is a big one because you walk in a room with a bunch of guys, and sometimes there's this need to put on this alpha shield, you know. Like I can't, I can't and I know, like, for example, like I talk to a lot of guys, a lot for a lot of guys after they get out of, let's say, college, it becomes hard to make male friends because now you have to initiate this engagement with someone else. Because think about it, our entire life until we're about 23 years old, 24, the the circumstances with which we would engage with somebody are are pre-arranged for us in a non-vulnerable way. I have to live here in this class, and so do you, so we might as well talk to each other. And I'm not necessarily giving, I'm not necessarily bowing down to you, and you're not bowing down to me, the fact that we're talking to here because we're just sitting here. But you take away those pre-arranged societal norm situations. Now I'm 24 years old, and I have to approach you at the gym or at the store or at the bar and start talking to you. Like, what's up, man? How you doing? Like it's a much, it's a it's a very different interaction. So, and you know, and and let's just talk about connection. And I I don't want to go on forever, or I know we want to kind of keep this episode a little bit short, shorter than than normal, but um you need a variety of connection, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? Like I I I feel like um, you know, you can't just have connection only connection with people that look, think, and act and you know, like you. Right. Yep. You know, because then you're just gonna get more of the same. That's right. Um, so it's not only is it connection, but it's with you know a dynamic, a dynamic amount of different um people and um and you know, connections. So I hope I don't I don't know if I made sense on that last one. I'm just I'm just saying the vulnerability piece I think is key. If you're gonna if if you're seeking a true connection with somebody, yes, it needs to be deep. Yeah, you need to be honest, but there's also a level of vulnerability that comes in there too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I and I do want to say that this actually does affect men more than women.
SPEAKER_01:Does it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, you know, I I I I can go back to there's a and I think we might have spoken about this in one of our earlier podcasts. Um, the long one of the longest run in Harvard studies with men. I don't know, maybe I um is this there's this 75-year-old study where they've studied men, like uh the the men uh uh well-being of of men over a span of time. And what they found was that those men that had um connections um lived the longest and had better health. Those men that didn't have proper social connections actually fared, they died earlier, yeah, and they had worse health.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So it it affects, and when we look at, you know, of course, the suicide rates are up, and it's a lot of adults are committing suicide. And when you look at that, it's a lot of men.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know, I I can only go by a very limited sample size, and I'm talking about less than 10, and it's it's it's very subjective, but of the probably eight to 10 individuals that I can think of throughout the course of my adult life that have been 80 plus years old and have been in good health and have been able to have their mental acuity still exist to where they can have a conversation like you and I right now and talk about what's going on in the in the world, drive themselves. Uh, there's a gentleman right now that I can can can think about that he's 84 years old. He drive he drives himself to the gym every day, and I'll see him. Um, and they all have families and connection that supports them greatly. And it not not a support like, oh, you're 80 years old, I gotta follow you around and make sure you don't fall. Like it's more like that connection and that they have this purpose and and and and there's this, there's this. So all you know, I'm sitting here thinking about and and I know a lot of individuals that to your point, they seem to have slipped away a little bit, or their um their physical health isn't that great. And right, those individuals that I can think of off the top of my head, I don't know that they're of course there's of course there are all kinds of examples of like this is a I'm speaking from a very limited situation, not not that like there are people that are in in in in bad health and uh mentally or physically and don't have good support. That's not what I'm saying. But I do think that the overwhelming, probably majority of the people that are healthy and that are mentally sound, they do have a strong, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And you know, we see this too when um a spouse dies, right? Someone who's older in their older uh uh golden years, and the spouse dies, you know, uh typically within a couple of years, the other the other spouse dies, you know, and this is more true, so true for men as well, right? Um, and so I I I think you know, the this topic is uh we can keep going on with it. It's it's it's a powerful topic and one that deserves attention, not just by this conversation you and I are having, but community conversation, uh conversation in our families, you know, are we checking in with our loved ones? Yeah, you know, um, and and these are you know, it's yes, it's vulnerable to pause out of everything that we're doing, our busy, and just you know, really check in, you know, tell me how you are. Right, you know, tell me what what can we do better as a family to connect, you know. Um, and and this is not sitting in front of the TV and watching a movie together. You know, we're talking about you know, true connection, maybe even redefining as a family what connection is to you.
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_00:Because it's gonna be different for each of us, right? What you feel is is your definition of connection might be completely different than my definition of connection.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and you know what? I I'm guilty of this. Uh I am, and I I I I to your point, you're talking about making the effort, and um, we get so busy with everything, you know, it's just it's and we're so used to that. But you know, I think about this. Um it's 2024. Like let's just say 120 years ago, let's say like 1900. Um people still had families, and you know, they still had um people that lived close to them. Um, even into the 19, the teens of the 20s. Um, you know, I'm from I'm from you know southern Kentucky, and I have spoken to my grandparents, um, and I and they can remember when they would have to take a a horse and whack a horse and buggy or something over to to see their grandparents who lived like you know five miles down the road, but that was like a three-hour trip, you know, you know, or whatever, but on horse and buggy, and you know, and and so it would be in a whole it would be a whole day commitment. Now, of course, there wasn't as many things going on at the time, right? But I mean, you want to talk about like the commitment to just visiting someone and and maintaining that level of community, it was far, far more of a time and and and and and you know, effort to keep to continue to keep connected with people. And um, you know, and you know, it's unfortunate that you know nowadays some of the convenience of picking up the phone or a text message or a video call, it seems like harder than loading up a horse and wagon and taking a four-hour trip to see your your grandma, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and you know, in in my in my country and in the Caribbean, we don't have all of these nursing homes where we put our elderly away.
SPEAKER_01:Really?
SPEAKER_00:No. That's that's that's an American thing. They all stay with the family, they all we all stay with the family. Like my grandmother died at she died in 2013. She was 92, and she lived upstairs. My aunt uh lived downstairs, but and even now my my uh mother-in-law and father, you know, they're 80 something, but they all everyone lives on the same property.
SPEAKER_01:Well, you know, we we we talked about this in one in like probably like the our our our episode that we talked about death, but like that's a very American thing is to separate yourself from impending death. Well, right, it it is, it is not not to not not to say that because you're old enough to be in a nursing home that you're gonna die right away, but like it's we kind of like we don't want that in our face.
SPEAKER_00:And we don't want the stress of it, right? I have to take care of this person, and but the the interesting thing is is that when you place a love an uh an older loved one in a nursing home, their health begins to deteriorate. Absolutely you can guarantee that within you know a couple years they're gonna die because one, they're lonely.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and that's what I was gonna say is that like when you look at that spin specific situation, um it's a forced connection with a community that they probably don't feel that they want to be there, right?
SPEAKER_00:And now I'm talking, you know, and this is different from these uh uh uh retirement homes. Like I went the other day to visit a good friend, and you know, she just sold her house.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, some of those places are are are bumpy.
SPEAKER_00:I was like, I was like, how can I move in here?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, they have it going on in there, four restaurants, all at different levels, and yeah, they've got a pool and an amazing gym. And I was like, shit.
SPEAKER_01:It's like they're back in college again.
SPEAKER_00:There's like I know in the dorms. They're living in the dorms. So I'm not talking about retirement spaces like that, right? But you have to have a lot of money, you know. She was telling me, she's like, Yeah, you actually have to come in on your own two feet. If you're in a wheelchair, they're not going to accept you.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Well, and that's that's the difference there is that the decision to join that community is self-initiating.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. You know, that's right.
SPEAKER_01:So that's the difference between one community versus another, but yeah, it is.
SPEAKER_00:It is. But yeah, in my country, we don't have these things like nursing homes. It doesn't exist.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. Well, there's a lot of price tag and a lot of money around the nursing home thing, too. So um, that's also one main driver of why we as greedy ass Americans um have yeah, and you know, I'm familiar with it because before my mom died, because she had some health issues, um uh she needed care.
SPEAKER_00:Uh, she was in a nursing home, but we had to make sure that we were going to visit her daily to advocate for her and to make sure that she was being taken care of and that she wasn't lonely, you know, and so but uh you know, when I would go to when we would go, we would see other people there where they haven't had visitors in a long time, right? So yeah, I mean, you know, so there's so many different facets to this loneliness, and you know, you know, as we kind of wrap up, it's just you know, anyone that's listening here, you know, maybe pause and you know, ask yourself one, well, what is my uh level of connection? You know, how am I connecting with myself, with the environment around me? How am I connecting with my family? What is my definition for connection and how where can I actually do a better job in connecting with those that I love, including yourself? Including yourself.
SPEAKER_01:Two things, and I I think that that's that's awesome. What you just said, it's it's so so pivotal. The one thing I I do want to say quickly is and clarify is that if you if you listen to what we just said and you have had to put your loved one in a nursing home because of some type of health issue, that's not what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_02:Right, right.
SPEAKER_01:If you're ill-equipped to handle the the situation, then you know, more power to you to do whatever you felt was necessary to maintain your sanity and and and ability. So so no. Thank you for bringing that up. We're talking about the folks that like rather, you know, that have put it put a loved one somewhere so they don't have to look at them, you know, uh that type of thing. So um, you know, that's that's one thing. The other thing I'll say um is um checking in. I I saw a commercial the other day, and I don't remember what it was for, but it was like it really stuck with me because we're all guilty of this, and I think this is a great way to end this podcast, is that um how many times a day do you ask somebody how they're doing? Five or six, like you know, hey man, how you been? How you doing? You good? Cool, right? But like if you flip that a little bit, this guy was saying that he started asking his friends, how are you doing right now? I love that by adding the words right now to it, he said that he started to get a lot different reactions, a lot different responses from people. Like if you ask me how I'm doing, yeah, I'm I'm I'm doing okay overall. How are you doing right now? Like right this second. Yeah, because that right now, right this second, can turn into something bigger. But if you're able to address it with somebody early on, then you know you're able to get it. And like the fact that you're asking right now is saying, hey, I've got time to I've got time to to listen if you you know want to tell me.
SPEAKER_00:So and I think there's a another component with that that I'll add really quickly is that we tend to give just uh an automatic response. Hey, I'm okay.
SPEAKER_01:We do, we do, right?
SPEAKER_00:And I think part of that is that we feel like if I really tell the truth, is anyone really going to want to listen to that?
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's it's that it's that piece of also if you want connections, sometimes you have to be vulnerable.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So yeah, that's uh I'm good. I'm complete in this.
SPEAKER_01:Good, yeah, me too. And I, you know, like I I we weren't sure exactly what we were gonna talk about. So I'm I'm glad you brought this up. I I really don't think that there's I I wasn't I was ill-equipped and unaware that these numbers existed out there. And hopefully, you guys, if you hear, if you're listening to this and you've made it this far through this podcast, that these numbers and this discussion will speak to you in some way because um, you know, I I can't imagine um if these numbers were as public in the face of decision makers throughout our country that um it would be as silent as it is with those types of saying basically you're if you are alone, you're gonna have a 60% chance of of dying sooner than you otherwise wouldn't. And that's that's unbelievable.
SPEAKER_00:That's huge. That's huge.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know how they crack that number, but regardless, it's still pretty uh damning.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I don't know how many people even was a word that that came out last year or even heard it.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, so yeah.
SPEAKER_01:All right, guys. Well, we appreciate you very much. Uh reach out to your loved ones, check on them, uh, make an effort to connect and uh uh with people that maybe you otherwise wouldn't other have connected with. And uh we appreciate you listening.
SPEAKER_00:All right, be well.
SPEAKER_01:Bye.